Nov 9, 2022Liked by Joe Duncan, The Science of Sex
Fabulous, so refreshing at last to read someone so expertly challenge Jordon Peterson. Peterson sounds credible, but at the same time he seems to make no sense, have a hidden agenda and be a little ‘wired’. He spews so much theory and apparent research data, in his inimitable speedy delivery that he’s hard to challenge. Sam Harris has had a few goes but they end up going down abstract rabbit holes. Well done Joe Duncan. Your approach to science seems helped by your openness to seeing the world as it is, your experience and common sense in understanding relationships and observing other people and probably most importantly your integrity and sanity!
Love this! Jordan Peterson is one of the most famous transphobes after JK Rowling. Even his history of hatred towards trans people alone is enough for me to discredit him. Yeah a lot of people are easily manipulated by eloquent folks using fancy theories and statistics. That's a good tip on being skeptical of those using round numbers rather than exact numbers.
Yes, I saw a writer on Medium, a dating coach, actually, rant about the top 10% of men getting all the women kind of thing. And yes, he talks as if Tinder represents the entire world but it doesn't. In fact, it sounds like men on dating apps are really desperate to have someone, and would rather swipe right rather than left on Tinder…
In fact, back when I believed I was a straight woman, I participated in this speed dating research study at my undergrad University. Well it turned out that the men wrote yes to wanting to see the woman again a lot more often than the women did. I was amazed because I actually wrote yes for most of the men. I was feeling adventurous and was curious what I would get. Sadly I got zero matches, but oh well.
But I later learned about a theory, on how if you go for many people, hoping to find a partner, then you would make nobody feel special and it turns them off. That makes sense. I remember some other research studies about how "uncommon attention" is very attractive. If they pay special attention to you, it's flattering and appealing. If they seem equally friendly towards everyone, then there's nothing flattering about getting their attention... That might be one of my problems, actually. I'm friendly and bubbly towards almost everyone, so it could be near impossible to tell if I'm interested in someone or just being friendly.
About the incels being lonely, misunderstood men, I recently read a really nice piece by Jessica Wildfire. She said that it's valid to feel lonely, sad, maybe even trashy about yourself if you can't find a partner. Obviously the men's entitled attitude towards women is bad. But the feelings of dejection and despair from not being loved are understandable. At the same time, everybody experiences unrequited love sometimes. Everyone has moments of loneliness and insecurity. But you just learn to live with rejection. It sucks, but it's not anybody's fault. There is no feminist conspiracy against men like so many incels believe.
I really like hearing about the statistics on different age groups. For the longest time, our professors also taught us about the theory of women wanting richer older men, and men wanting younger, more fertile women. It feels awful to hear that women are essentially gold diggers and men only care about looks. I think many of us know that this depressing theory is just wrong, but aside from pointing to anecdotal evidence, we couldn't really articulate why.
So yeah it's really interesting hearing about how many single women are under the age of 30! And that's a great insight that many single people are happy being single, want to focus on their careers, are not ready for a relationship, or another reason. Yet if most people are either taken or not interested in a relationship, then a single person who wants a relationship really has a tiny dating pool! And those of us who are also gay have an additional obstacle, as you can imagine. XD
Similar to this, it has always bothered me how a lot of straight female friends would say that guys only care about sex, none of them want a long-term relationship. But if you think about it, statistically, most guys who do want a long term relationship are already in one. So among the minority of guys who are still single, only a portion of them are interested in long-term relationships. Not that there's anything wrong with casual or short-term flings if both parties are happy with that, but if you have a tiny pool of available people with the same relationship goals as you, then it can feel a bit hopeless.
Trying to chase after someone with incompatible relationship goals, is just a recipe for more heartbreak and cynicism. My unpopular opinion is that two people should make sure they have the same relationship goal before jumping into bed. Otherwise, after sex, one person feels heartbroken and used, while the other person gets cold feet and doesn't want to be tied down. I've actually heard of the reverse gender scenario too. A male friend told me about how once, he had sex with a woman who turned out to only want sex as a relief from work. So he actually felt used because he wanted a long-term relationship too, not just sex.
I did notice this disparity for a long time: a lot of straight women complain about the the horrors of men on dating apps; in contrast, I know a lot of happily married men who sincerely love their wives. Maybe a big part of this, is that most "suitable men" are already in committed relationships, so you don't see them on apps and many women don't believe they exist.
Fabulous, so refreshing at last to read someone so expertly challenge Jordon Peterson. Peterson sounds credible, but at the same time he seems to make no sense, have a hidden agenda and be a little ‘wired’. He spews so much theory and apparent research data, in his inimitable speedy delivery that he’s hard to challenge. Sam Harris has had a few goes but they end up going down abstract rabbit holes. Well done Joe Duncan. Your approach to science seems helped by your openness to seeing the world as it is, your experience and common sense in understanding relationships and observing other people and probably most importantly your integrity and sanity!
Thanks. Here's more on Peterson: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amileswmathis.com+%22jordan+peterson%22
I also post good sci info at https://substack.com/profile/98340589-len-kinder
Love this! Jordan Peterson is one of the most famous transphobes after JK Rowling. Even his history of hatred towards trans people alone is enough for me to discredit him. Yeah a lot of people are easily manipulated by eloquent folks using fancy theories and statistics. That's a good tip on being skeptical of those using round numbers rather than exact numbers.
Yes, I saw a writer on Medium, a dating coach, actually, rant about the top 10% of men getting all the women kind of thing. And yes, he talks as if Tinder represents the entire world but it doesn't. In fact, it sounds like men on dating apps are really desperate to have someone, and would rather swipe right rather than left on Tinder…
In fact, back when I believed I was a straight woman, I participated in this speed dating research study at my undergrad University. Well it turned out that the men wrote yes to wanting to see the woman again a lot more often than the women did. I was amazed because I actually wrote yes for most of the men. I was feeling adventurous and was curious what I would get. Sadly I got zero matches, but oh well.
But I later learned about a theory, on how if you go for many people, hoping to find a partner, then you would make nobody feel special and it turns them off. That makes sense. I remember some other research studies about how "uncommon attention" is very attractive. If they pay special attention to you, it's flattering and appealing. If they seem equally friendly towards everyone, then there's nothing flattering about getting their attention... That might be one of my problems, actually. I'm friendly and bubbly towards almost everyone, so it could be near impossible to tell if I'm interested in someone or just being friendly.
About the incels being lonely, misunderstood men, I recently read a really nice piece by Jessica Wildfire. She said that it's valid to feel lonely, sad, maybe even trashy about yourself if you can't find a partner. Obviously the men's entitled attitude towards women is bad. But the feelings of dejection and despair from not being loved are understandable. At the same time, everybody experiences unrequited love sometimes. Everyone has moments of loneliness and insecurity. But you just learn to live with rejection. It sucks, but it's not anybody's fault. There is no feminist conspiracy against men like so many incels believe.
I really like hearing about the statistics on different age groups. For the longest time, our professors also taught us about the theory of women wanting richer older men, and men wanting younger, more fertile women. It feels awful to hear that women are essentially gold diggers and men only care about looks. I think many of us know that this depressing theory is just wrong, but aside from pointing to anecdotal evidence, we couldn't really articulate why.
So yeah it's really interesting hearing about how many single women are under the age of 30! And that's a great insight that many single people are happy being single, want to focus on their careers, are not ready for a relationship, or another reason. Yet if most people are either taken or not interested in a relationship, then a single person who wants a relationship really has a tiny dating pool! And those of us who are also gay have an additional obstacle, as you can imagine. XD
Similar to this, it has always bothered me how a lot of straight female friends would say that guys only care about sex, none of them want a long-term relationship. But if you think about it, statistically, most guys who do want a long term relationship are already in one. So among the minority of guys who are still single, only a portion of them are interested in long-term relationships. Not that there's anything wrong with casual or short-term flings if both parties are happy with that, but if you have a tiny pool of available people with the same relationship goals as you, then it can feel a bit hopeless.
Trying to chase after someone with incompatible relationship goals, is just a recipe for more heartbreak and cynicism. My unpopular opinion is that two people should make sure they have the same relationship goal before jumping into bed. Otherwise, after sex, one person feels heartbroken and used, while the other person gets cold feet and doesn't want to be tied down. I've actually heard of the reverse gender scenario too. A male friend told me about how once, he had sex with a woman who turned out to only want sex as a relief from work. So he actually felt used because he wanted a long-term relationship too, not just sex.
I did notice this disparity for a long time: a lot of straight women complain about the the horrors of men on dating apps; in contrast, I know a lot of happily married men who sincerely love their wives. Maybe a big part of this, is that most "suitable men" are already in committed relationships, so you don't see them on apps and many women don't believe they exist.
Source for JP claim? Cant find it